The arguments which conclude to sedevacantist claims are many, varied and complex. The current Bishop of Rome is an “anti-Pope,” a “false Pope.”  In externals and internal belief, sedevacantists are almost indistinguishable from Catholicism as it was experienced and practiced before the Second Vatican Council. Anything else is a betrayal.”. And soon, within a couple of centuries, mass was being said in Latin. They can’t, because Our Lord is not a liar. And have there been a large number of them in certain parts of the world today? 4. One seminary professor described the book as a “North Star” to help guide Catholics through the present darkness in the Church. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. 16:18). Please support our mission! So I’ve come across a website that talks about the sedevacantist-type idea of how the Church might be in the great apostasy and how we might not be only in the great apostasy, but that the Catholic Church has ventured from its original traditions. You look in Europe, there are a bunch of apostates in Europe. Behind a facade of intense loyalty to the Magisterium and the Holy Father, sedevacantists separate themselves from the Vine and become, in practice, "protestants with sacraments." One among many reasons that pornography is an "occasion of sin" is its ability to draw the mind into the world of evil. Freemason and Communist infiltrators are often seen as the reason these Popes got elected. It talks about how the Church will almost pass out of existence, but Christ will return to save it at the last moment. Caller: I was protestant, I then ventured into atheism, and now I am currently at RCIA accepting the Catholic faith. Sedevacantism. I am not convinced by their answers here. And that tells us that Christ is maintaining his Church in the truth fundamentally, just like he said he would. He also promised the gates of hell would not prevail against it. So what happens with these sedevacantists is they will typically say things like “Vatican II was the point of the rupture,” and maybe even a little earlier than that, with Pope John XXIII, “He was not a valid pope for…reasons,” which are really hard to specify. We have chosen, deliberately, not to respond to each individual example, or argument, put forward by sedevacantists because, like quoting individual verses of Scripture, context is required to interpret them correctly. It is also impossible that Our Lord could abandon His Church as it would frustrate the very purpose for which the Church had been founded, to be God's instrument for the salvation of souls. So in order to be an apostate, you have to say “I was a Christian and I’m not anymore.”. It is essential, therefore, to begin discussions with sedevacantists with the clear conviction that their conclusions are false. The sedevacantist heresy is the claim that the See of Peter is vacant and that we have no true and visible head of the Church. And if Vatican II had done something that fundamentally betrayed the faith, then number one, the gates of hell would have prevailed against the Church, which Jesus said wouldn’t happen, and number two, there would have been an outcry from the bishops! So it’s hard to say “we’re in a great apostasy” or “THE Great Apostasy” when the Church is bigger than ever. The Catholic Church, right now, is a very wounded Mystical Body of Christ. I don’t think they are entirely on the wrong track, but I believe there are decent rebuttals to their answers. I have the first edition of the book and plan on getting the new edition. As the Second Vatican Council taught, the hierarchical society and the Mystical Body form one complex reality. Father Z is not a Sedevacantist in the least, unless one’s definition of Sedevacantism is anyone who criticizes or disagrees with the Pope on some issues (in which case 90% of Catholics, and great Saints like St Peter Damian and St Catherine of Siena would qualify as “Sedevacantists” … Catholics without Compromise. If we cannot depend on Jesus to be faithful to His promises to the Church, then upon what or whom can we depend? The book does just that: it answers the difficult questions based on the sound doctrine of the Church, not by emotion. Sedevacantist claims and arguments require context to be refuted. Donate "It is the position held by a small portion of traditional Catholics who claim that the Papal Seat, the Holy See, has been vacant since around 1960. It had already been a tradition, but now it was an infallibly defined one. So even if you want to say, “Well, I think they could have done better, or think they could have phrased this differently,” fine. Furthermore, when we speak of the visibility of the Church, we do not simply mean that her members, her rites, and her ministry can be seen. In order to be an apostate, you have to say “I am not a Christian any more.” And that is not what’s happening in terms of the claims sedevacantists are making with regard to the bishops of the Church. ... Q&A: Catholic Answers to a Catholic Crisis. The term “great apostasy” does appear in scripture, but it’s used in more than one context. That so many good and intelligent Catholics have been seduced by sedevacantist arguments is proof that one should avoid exploring and engaging sedevacantist claims as the occasions of sin that they are. What sedevacantists object to is a Mass being offered “Una Cum” or in union with a Vatican II pope and the local bishop who do not cherish the Catholic and Apostolic Faith as do ‘all orthodox believers and professors of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith,’ … There is no single thread that ties them all together except their conclusion that what most Catholics today believe to be the authentic Catholic Church is really a counterfeit. And they didn’t. Jesus was no less God when He was beaten, bruised and crucified. Letters to Friends and Benefactors 1975 - 1983. Letters to Popes and other Clergy. Book Tim Now! It is not an essential mark of the Church that it be without sin, or even that its Popes all be holy. The term “great apostasy” is really a theological term that’s based on some passages that indicate there will be a great falling-away from the faith towards the end of the world. Against sedevacantism, mainstream Catholics advance arguments such as: 1. The footnote to that last sentence points to The Code of Canon Law, article 1325 in the Old Code, article 751 in the New Code. The sedevacantists may have many legitimate criticisms of the Church, but we return to the words of St. Peter: "Lord, to whom shall we go? Now there was another component to your question which is: has the Church abandoned its traditions? So the people who are making these arguments simply do not understand what an apostasy is. To suspend one’s judgment in the interest of being open-minded and fair is to open a door to God’s enemy, who loves nothing more than to separate men from the Truth. note: at the time this article was written, it was Benedict XVI] as a … Coache,[1] make it a matter of faith, and refuse to assist at Masses where the priest prays for the pope. So originally, presumably, Jesus said the liturgy for the first time in Aramaic, at the last supper. And so part of the problem with sedevacantists is they don’t recognize the degree to which development can happen. It’s a huge book (700+ pages!) As more and more Catholics discover that their Church has been caught contradicting itself in matters that should have qualified under its umbrellas of Infallibility and Indefectibility The Sedevacantist Delusion introduces an explanation that requires readers to reconsider the historical origins of its claims. Catholic Resistance. Each individual example, each premise by itself, is a distraction from the larger context needed to remain faithful to the Church in the face of many undeniable problems. There is, without question, a crisis in the Church today. The Sedevacantists say that there has not been a true pope since Pius XII. If we have doubts about the authority of the Holy Father, it is easier to disobey him. The Pope may have been elected and accepted by cardinals yet, due to heretical views, is not “truly” the head of the earthly church. Anytime someone is attacking somebody else, you have a big risk that they’re distorting things. There’s not going to be a sudden apostasy with nobody noticing. Answer: Sedevacantism is the belief that the Roman Catholic Church currently lacks a valid Pope. And I don’t see the sedevacantists saying the gates of Hell have prevailed. Join us LIVE for Post-Election Special tonight at 6:30 PM ET. Our Lord constituted His Church as a visible hierarchically governed body founded on the rock of Peter for whom He had prayed that his faith might not fail. And I totally understand when you said that since I’m going through the education of the Catholic Church, and even besides going through RCIA I’ve been doing a lot of my own research on the Catholic Church, which is again why I want to join the Catholic Church, I definitely found the truth in it. The fact that Pope John XXIII has worked his miracle proves: a) that he is in heaven, b) that he was a true Pope and c) that therefore the sedevacantist theory that there has been no Pope since Pius XII is wrong. We cannot encourage anyone more strongly to give up speculation about "true Popes" and "anti-Popes" and imprudent dependence on "private revelations" that should never be understood or interpreted apart from the authority and Magisterium of the Church. Enjoying this content? However, within this collage of valid observations are intimations, allegations and apparent logical conclusions that, because they are impossible, cannot be true. But what I find problematic with a lot of these sedevacantist claims is they don’t understand what an apostasy is. There are also apostates here in America. The modern Roman Catholic Church is seen as "run by anti-Catholic infiltrators" doing everything they can to wreck real Catholic faith. Question: "What is sedevacantism?" We have gathered together several quotes from various writers on the issues of the indefectibility of the Church and the necessity that such an indefectible Church be visible. It is incompatible with the profession of Catholicism to posit any form of the "true Church" separated from the Catholic hierarchy in communion with the Roman Pontiff. Caller: Yeah, it definitely helps. The authors show how sedevacantism is FALSE. It must therefore be an essentially visible body. ... Lefebvre as his determination to let the Church make binding pronouncements (as opposed to the non-binding hunches of Sedevacantists) is the not only Catholic, but is one that is consonant with the most profound humility as well as Catholic realism. Aramaic was the most common language spoken in Palestine at the time, we have indications from the gospels that Jesus regularly spoke Aramaic so the first Mass was probably Aramaic. You wrote: “being a good Catholic nowadays requires one to ignore 90 percent of what comes out of Rome.” Go ahead and ignore 90 percent of what comes out of Rome and you’ll probably be more at peace. Tim Staples explains what Sedevacantism is and why it should be rejected. One of the things that Christ promised is that he would be with his church till the end of time. But those situations are not representative of the Church as a whole. sedevacantism.com sedevacantism.org sedeprivationism.com sedeprivationism.org thechurchofjesuschristdivinephysician.com thechurchofjesuschristdivinephysician.org As Saint Paul says, it’s the pillar and foundation of truth in the world, Christ said the gates of hell are not going to prevail against it, and so consequently, this—and I hate to say this, because I don’t like to say things in general that are negative about people—but the ideas that are being proposed by sedevacantists are just paranoid and delusional ideas that are not in conformity with the promises of Christ. If Our Lord abandoned His Church the words: "He that heareth you heareth Me" would be true only for an exceedingly small group who consider themselves as the elect, which is always the most evident characteristic of a sect. http://www.catholic.com Jimmy Akin is an internationally known author and speaker. The Church was instituted by Our Lord to guide her members effectively toward their supernatural end by continuing His own ministry. And so you have elements of tradition that are in continuity with the past, but you also have developments that occur within that tradition. Pornography has the power to enter our minds through our senses and, thereby, to poison our thoughts. Our intelligence is compromised. It’s that dangerous. Sedevacantist premises don’t really prove what they claim. If an author, website or video is known to be sedevacantist, you should avoid them as you would avoid pornography. Does that give you some help? Vatican to Offer Abortion-Tainted Vaccine, Progressive ‘Catholic’ Media Goes Belly-Up, Post-Election Special: Courts Ignoring Evidence, I Am With You Always: The Divine Constitution and Indefectibility of the Catholic Church. We’re not gonna be a sixth of mankind and be bigger than we’ve ever been in history. I like Catholic Answers. The sedevacantist heresy is the claim that the See of Peter is vacant and that we have no true and visible head of the Church. What are we to think of the Sedevacantist Position? In terms of Pope Francis, he’s the pope. You are not signed in as a Premium user; Premium users get 10% discount in the store! Sedevacantists end up with an invisible Calvinist Church composed of believers spiritually “subject” to illicitly consecrated bishops of questionable validity, giving no adherence to anyone other than themselves, and (in many cases) possessed of mutual hatred for one another as displayed in their puerile pseudo-apostolic diatribes against each other. Grace is produced in the souls of the faithful by exterior means consisting of sacraments administered with special rites, and celebrated by ministers specifically chosen for this function. Sedevacantism. You had a little bit of buyer’s remorse afterwards by one bishop—I’m thinking of Marcel Lefebvre— but at the time of the Council, he didn’t you know, shout from the rooftops, “This is all wrong.” He signed the Vatican II documents. I don’t see the “gates of Hell” argument making a lot of sense here. We live and move and have our being in a wounded Mystical Body of Christ. You didn’t have a protest of bishops denouncing the Vatican II documents at the time of Vatican II. The 1870 Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus of the First Vatican Councilreaffirmed that "it has always been necessary f… There are people in every age who apostatize. What we mean is that these can be recognized to constitute the true Church of Christ; so that, in other words, we can point to a specific society and say of it: "This is Christ's Church." The Church as a whole is growing, and it’s one-sixth of mankind. but is a treasure trove of what Catholics need to arm themselves against sedevacantism. There is not, there never has been, and there never can be, any organized body not in communion with the Roman Pontiff of which that statement can be made. The Church is bigger today than it has ever been in the past, and so it has more members now than it has ever had in the past. Because their clergy are, typically, validly ordained bishops and priests but separated from the visible Church, they are “protestants with sacraments.”. Sure. Apostasy is defined as—and you can read this in the Code of Canon Law, including the 1917 Code of Canon Law, if I recall correctly, it’s certainly in the 83 Code and it’s in the Catechism—apostasy is defined as the total repudiation of the Christian faith. And in 381, the divinity of the Holy Spirit was infallibly defined. Our conscience is numbed. And you do not have bishops, you don’t have the the pope and the body of bishops saying “Guess what, you know, we used to be Christian, but we’re not anymore.” Therefore, whatever criticisms you have of the pope and the bishops, they have not apostatized. We receive many inquiries into sedevacantist authors, websites and videos. Host: All right, how’s all that, Brent? It developed. Vatican II … Any sacramental rites authorized by the Roman Pontiff must be and are official sacramental rites of the Holy Catholic Church, and, when celebrated faithfully in accordance with the text and rubrics which he has approved, must of necessity give grace, be free from error, and contain nothing intrinsically harmful to the faith. Our Lord did not found a sect but the Catholic, that is, the universal Church. But very quickly, certainly by Saint Paul’s time, they started saying Mass in Greek. You have not committed apostasy. While sedevacantism does not per se encompass conspiracy theories, sedevacantists seem prone to following them. Our feelings encourage us to sin. Sedevacantism isn’t the answer. Thus the Sedevacantist must maintain that the Church preserves the Four Marks despite lacking a Successor to Peter, while the orthodox Catholic must prove that such a scenario would mean the Marks had been lost. 10). I have no doubt that the bishops are, as a college, successors of the apostles. But if there was some horrendous theological error that struck at the foundation of the Church, some group of the episcopate would have protested. If we have doubts about the legitimacy of the Holy Father, it is easier to disobey any and all Church authority, because all Church authority proceeds from the See of Peter: not only do we not need to obey the Pope, we don't need to obey priests and bishops. You have the words of everlasting life!". The reference to the Church as a visible body ... is of crucial importance. If the conclusion to sedevacantist arguments is false, then the premises which support that conclusion must be deficient, i.e., unable to prove their conclusion. The difference is that we are in communion with the visible Church and they are not. Catholic Articles. Catholic ministers may give the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, and Anointing of the Sick to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church…” Antipope John Paul II, Catechism of the Catholic Church (# 521): “By his Incarnation, he, the Son of … Jimmy Akin explains why the reasons given by sedevacantists for their position are faulty and contrary to the promises of Christ. Some sedevacantists consider their position as a "likely opinion," and consent to receive the sacraments from non-sedevacantist priests, while others, called "ultra" by the Fr. One more thing: Some sedevacantists tried to leave that stuff at my Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish too. Sites such as Most Holy Family Monastery are "spiritual pornography," having the same potential for sin as more carnal pornographic sites. Sedevacantism is the belief that the See of Rome is vacant - that is, they believe that the Pope is not really the Pope. According to standard Catholic doctrine, the Catholic Church is a visible identifiable body that is literally catholic, in the sense of universal ("for all people"). That is all we set out to demonstrate. So did the Protestants. I like Catholic Answers. Have there been individual people who are apostates in our age? Sedevacantism is the claim, espoused by certain extreme traditionalist Catholics, that there is currently no valid pope because of a great apostasy by either the pope or the whole Church. No. This is seen as incompatible with the sedevacantist claim that the true nature of the Catholic Church has been hidden from the world for half a century. Because it has not only the element of continuity, but it also has the element of development that occurs, and you can’t arbitrarily fossilize a certain stage in the Church’s history and say “There can be no departures from this. Similarly, Jesus asks “Will the son of man find faith when he comes back?” So all this and various other indicators suggest that by the end of the world we’re gonna have dramatically diminished in size. Originally, even in Rome, it was said in Greek; but over the course of time, Latin was added, and so were other languages. Sedevacantism comes from the Latin sede vacante, which means "seat vacant. Sedevacantism is the position, held by a minority of traditionalist Catholics, that the alleged present occupant of the Holy See is not truly pope due to the mainstream church's espousal of the heresy of modernism and that, for lack of a valid pope, the see has been … In fact, I had two anti-popes on Facebook try to become my Facebook friends a while back, but I concluded that they just wanted to be Facebook friends so they could promote their anti-papacies, and I didn’t friend them. In the "Foreword" to the book, Fr. I mean, how do you get—maybe you get some of the bishops to have a wrong-headed notion about something, maybe even got a significant number of them to have a wrong-headed notion about something— but some of them are gonna be guided enough by the Holy Spirit that they say “Wait a minute! I am not convinced by their answers here. And then Vatican II said all kinds of horrible things, in their mind, that contradicted the historic faith. So we just don’t see the conditions necessary for The Great Apostasy. Jimmy: Well, there are anti-popes. Most people are familiar with the word "pornography" and its attendant dangers. That’s how the Catechism envisions it. Sedevacantism The Vacancy of the Papal Throne since the Death of Pope Pius XII The Chair of St. Peter in Vatican City (image: shutterstock.com) On this page we present a slew of links to articles, blog posts, books, audios, and videos dealing with the subject matter of the Papacy, Sedevacantism, the false theological position known as “recognize-but-resist”,… So in your opinion, Jimmy, you would say that there are—this is just a clarification for me personally— you would say that there definitely are not any anti-popes, and all of the bishops still have their full succession from the original Church from the beginning, correct? This article originally appeared on the Traditionalist blog Athanasius Contra Mundum on September 3rd, 2009. Sedevacantists are demonstrably “catholic” but not Catholic. So that aspect of the tradition adapted. In his encyclical Satis cognitum, 1896, Pope Leo XIII noted the importance of the sacraments among the visible bonds uniting the members of the Mystical Body. And that’s something the Catholic Church accepts and recognizes, and it’s mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Answers to the Most Common Objections Against Sedevacantism. In a mind filled with the effects of pornography, sinful thoughts and actions are made easier. This is really wrong here!” And that didn’t happen. Since Our Lord cannot lie, sedevacantist claims must be false. But the Church is still the Church. Download as: 21. So there just would have been, at the Council, some kind of massive protest if it did anything fundamentally wrong. However, just as the authority of the Apostles was not compromised by the presence of Judas in their midst, the wounded Body of Christ we experience does not make it other than what it is: the Body of Christ. What they all have in common is a belief that the current Pope, and usually several predecessors, are/were "anti-Popes." [citation needed] Conspiracies concerning Communism and Jewish Kabbalah are not uncommon either. What Are We to Think of the Sedevacantist Position.pdf (Size: 187.14 KB / Downloads: 2) "So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, The Vatican II antipopes are without doubt real heretics. Europe, there are decent rebuttals to their Answers it at the Council, kind! Arguments require context to be an apostate against sedevacantism how the Church as a college successors. 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